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[DarkShinji250]

I really don't know if this belongs here, so if it needs to be moved please do so.

Ok, I just went to a rally to support Hook & Ladder #42, a major part of a fire station for my area of town. It supports a huge area and it being taken out would cut the response time for this area and severely affect homeowners' safety. Doing so would leave the area with only the smaller engine which has a "garden hose" compared to the hook and ladder.

Cleveland wants to remove the engine for some reason. But like I said, this area of town needs it badly. It being taken out would leave the whole west side of Cleveland with only four engines and the east side with eight. But the east side pays less taxes then the west side does. What is with this?

Next thing you'll know is that the city of Cleveland would push for a safety levy. Isn't this the wrong way to garner support for such a levy? Let's raise taxes while cutting public safety.

According to three councilpersons Cleveland tried to do this last year at about the same time. The city promised that they wouldn't try this again without the people's support. And here they are, doing it again without the people's support. I guess this shows that you can't trust the government.

Cleveland, you want money next time? Go piss up a rope. Petition the state government to allow casinos in the state. We're drawing on property taxes to support the schools and public services. The people can only pay so much.

Now I ask, why do some cities do stuff like this?

[estio]

I don't know the particulars of your city, but the policies of govts small and large often leave us baffled and perplexed.

it's good to see you getting involved on the local issues. I'm hoping you submitted this to your local papers also.

The beauty of democracy is we can change corrupt and incompetent govts peacefully. The danger of democracy is 51% does not make something right or wrong, just more popular.

[s_stabeler]

true. and as for that, simply let them, and arrange annonymously for one of THEIR houses to get torched, then they might be keen to get the thing back. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA

[DarkShinji250]

estio wrote: I don't know the particulars of your city, but the policies of govts small and large often leave us baffled and perplexed.

it's good to see you getting involved on the local issues. I'm hoping you submitted this to your local papers also.

The beauty of democracy is we can change corrupt and incompetent govts peacefully. The danger of democracy is 51% does not make something right or wrong, just more popular.

It's was already all over the evening news. At least 150-200 people came out in support of Hook & Ladder #42. The big TV news stations were there to film the protest and the councilpersons' words. Hope this sends a message to the new mayor that we don't want them doing stuff like this without our input.

But we can only change the government at set times called "voting days."

[JuntaJoe]

Tv cameras do some good, but you have other avenues as well.

You need to put your councilmen representing your area on the spot with a public response.

If they say they do not have the votes to save the hook and ladder then ask about a municipal ballot referendum.

This is a terrific grass roots tool.

With enough signatures then you can force a citizen vote that is binding on city government.

You might also get a second petition for term limits going while you are at it. :wink:

[s_stabeler]

that would scare the hell out of them, I suspect. having a hook&ladder referendum, AND a trem limits referendum, they are trapped between a rock and a hard place.

[DarkShinji250]

The councilpersons I believe have term limits. And these three are the ones wanting to keep Hook & Ladder #42 right where it is, on the west side of Cleveland where it is most needed.

Now if only Cleveland will listen to us...

But like you said Joe, a vote might be needed.

[JuntaJoe]

Ok, you have several councilmen, a decent sized protest group, a bit of media coverage already. and a worthwhile cause.

Now you just need to put it all together.

Form a small committee as a braintrust. Make sure someone on the committee is always available to take calls through the day period.

Have the committee begin prodding those supporter councilmen to publicly endorse the referendum. Tell them that you will bug the local media to regularly quote them on the issue.

Politicos like publicity and a cause they can ride into re-election. Local media eats this stuff up. You just have to get these natural symbiots together.

Then you need the small committee to form a second larger one of part-timers in all the effected neighborhoods. This bigger committee will recruit volunteers to collect enough signatures to get on the ballot next fall. Be sure to read the fine print on election rules as there are extremely strict rules and deadlines that must be observed.

Then you send out the army of signature gatherers. Approach high traffic business managers and ask to camp outside. These are grocers, mall managers, and discount stores. Remind them that this referendum affects them too.



If you can get this far then the battle is won. No one ever is against more fire trucks. Everyone you tell in those neighborhoods will gladly sign up.

Second is that simply getting it on the ballot should ensure a victory as only the truly warped would vote no.

This is truly a case of overcoming intertia. Once the signature collectors go out and the councilmen pontificate on tv then the outcome is a certainty.

You simply need to get the ball rolling.

[DarkShinji250]

On the same note, they are having a community meeting soon. Hopefully something will get started there.

[JuntaJoe]

I see the seeds of failure in your last statement.


The word was "hope".


Make your destiny and act decisively.


Research the local referendum code and walk into the meeting with facts.


Call a local tv station and invite them to the meeting.


Call the councilmen affected by this idea and ask their staff to encourage their attendance.


Assume you are the only person willing to act. Show leadership and have the hard facts ready.


Be the first person to put their shoulder to the lever that moves the boulder down the hill.