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ExarKun · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 2322 Location: USA

Note from Joe: This thread was started to cover the singular topic of downloading music. But that is just a portion of the bigger issue of digital piracy and the uses of the Internet to avoid paying for licensed digital material. So the thread has been ammended to allow for discussing the broader topic.

Here is the origination post of the thread:

Well, not trying to start a huge argument just curious on people's thought.

I got to thinking with JuntaJoe and I told him that when it comes to illegal downloading I don't usally do it, but if I do my personal policy is if I like it go buy the albulm. If I don't to delete it off my hardrive.

Basicly I was just curious on other people's thoughts on that apporach to downloading.

Brf · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:03 am Post subject:

Yup. Everytime I want to buy something new, I always go to the store and steal it first and take it home. Then if I like it, I go back to the store and pay for it.

Waray · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:15 am Post subject:

Luckily in the Netherlands downloading mp3's is legal but it's illegal to distribute them.

Nice touch on the main argument of downloaders, Brf :P

I must say however that I checked out new bands by dl-ing some songs, finding them to my liking and bought their albums.

But mainly I download songs out of sheer convience. I've got an mp3-walkman, I throw some songs on them, divide them into subcategories I like (Rock, Dance, etc.) and when I'm bored of them I throw 'em off and put new stuff on it.
No sense in converting all my cd-albums, if I can dl the songs I want on my player within a minute. Pure lazieness.

On the other hand, I don't want to pay for dl-ing it either, since 50% of what I download is pure crap, which I delete after hearing it only once. Bands people told me to check out, interesting rewiews/news, heard a part on the radio, etc. which turned out to be completely opposite of my taste.

That would be Brf stealing a cd and then burning it at home to prevent others from hearing the sheer terror.

Maybe a solution would be to allow free distribution of songs which become corrupted after 2-3 day trial period or when you try to burn them on cd/upload on your player.

Sidenote: when it becomes illegal I'll quit dl-ing music.
I don't download software/games/movies since it's not legal.
Simple as that.
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ExarKun · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 2322 Location: USA

Well how would it be seen as bad for what I do? Everywhere I got my music from is a friend. He has all these cd's and then I download then I buy them. I mean your coment of going to the store stealing then going to buy one is totally off basic.

I mean how does this hurt any artist what so ever? If I buy the cd in the end it shouldn't even matter in the first place. Unlike going to the store and stealing it then going to buy it is very diffrent. I mean several people allow you to test out a cd at stores to see if you like it, if you don't you stop listing to it, if you do you buy it.

Brf · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:40 am Post subject:

If you go to your friend's house and listen to his CD, then go buy the CD, your argument would make sense. Downloading a song and listening to it yourself is not the same is listening once to someone elses legally bought music.

ExarKun · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 2322 Location: USA

No my freind does legally buy it all...he has like 2k cd's. He uses an FTP to let me listin to cd's he has that I may like, or I may go over there and borrow some and see if I like them. That's how I personally get music to test them out before I buy them.

Brf · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:47 am Post subject:

Yes. FTPing his music for your own use is not the same as borrowing his physical CD.... anymore than making copies of movies you rented from the store. Owning a copy of a copyrighted song or movie is illegal if you dont own it.

ExarKun · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 2322 Location: USA

Yet I still don't get it. You seem to not understand me...I BUY everything...not matter what usally, in fact there hasn't been a cd he hasn't either let me borrowed or I FTP'ed I havn't bought so far. And when it comes to FTP'ing the stuff after I have heard the cd if I like it I usally if I remember delete until I go an buy it.

Your gonna tell me that doing what I do is the same as a guy illegalling getting cd's and keeping them on his computer?

EDIT:
and also if I miss understood your other message and you didn't mean how I read then just ignore my last sentence.

Brf · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:02 am Post subject:

So you are saying I should be able to go into a store and steal the stuff, as long as I go back and pay for it later then.

ExarKun · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 2322 Location: USA

Well I got people's belives...I didn't think anyone would see it the way I did. I'm not saying illegal downloading is the way to go. But doesn't matter cause no matter. In the end I guess we have to agree to disagree.

Brf · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:07 am Post subject:

So you have no argument against me stealing from the store?

ExarKun · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 2322 Location: USA

Well you keep using that ideal of stealing from the store which is highly flawed. I would never download soemthing I wasn't serious to buy to begin with. First off i'd never go to the store to steal to listen than bring it back to buy. No one would in there right mind, that isn't the point here.

The point is that my freind legally owns all those cd's to begin with. And I don't have time to borrow everything all the time. So I download it just like I would go to his house and borrow it. I listen to it and like if I borrowed I like it I go buy it. Only diffrence is with me borrowing from him is if I don't like it I don't throw the cd away. Unlike when I download it I do delete it all.

Brf · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:16 am Post subject:

Downloading it is illegal. It is illegal to own a copy of it, whether you buy it later or not.

How is your owning a stolen copy of a song different than my owning a stolen item from a store?

ExarKun · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 2322 Location: USA

And let me throw this out there too. Have you ever had to download something, say mIRC, or any anti-spam or spy ware programs like adaware or spybot destroyer. Or file programs such as winzip, or winwar. Cause most people have these programs and almost all of them cost. And yet almost no one ever pays for them. Are they just as guilty as me who has never kept a single downloaded song of any kind that I didn't pay for?

ExarKun · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 2322 Location: USA

Hey I don't own any copies of the materal dude...I never burn the downloaded stuff. I told you I delete if I don't like and if I do like I usally delete it anyway and go buy it. I never keep any illegal formats of the music.

Brf · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:22 am Post subject:

Adaware is freeware. mIRC is shareware. Freeware and Shareware are offered up free by their authors. Those software are copyrighted and have a license that allows you to use it for free.

I personally have several games on my home computer that were shareware and I paid for eventually.

Your songs are not freeware or shareware.... They are illegal copies.

Brf · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:24 am Post subject:

ExarKun00720 wrote: Hey I don't own any copies of the materal dude.

MP3s ARE copies. The thing you download is a copy of copyrighted material.

ExarKun · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 2322 Location: USA

Do you not understand the word DELETE. I get rid of them, no longer on my computer in any format what so ever, they were only on there to begin with for about 2 hours. They don't exist. I keep nothing of what I download.

Brf · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:26 am Post subject:

So if I steal the item from the store for only 2 hours, then it is OK?

ExarKun · Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 2322 Location: USA

oh whatever. I've told you I didn't buy that idea to begin with. You said if I borrowed my freinds cd then bought the cd it wasn't stealing? HOW? By your defeintion of my downloading the music from him and doing the exact same thing when I borrow it is tealing then how is it not illegal for me to then borrow the music.?