castledoom.com

[JuntaJoe]

Research shows why some soldiers are cool under fire

CHICAGO (Reuters) – Soldiers who perform best under extreme stress have higher levels of chemicals that dampen the fear response, a finding that could lead to new drugs or training strategies to help others cope better, a U.S. researcher said on Sunday.

"There are certain individuals who just don't get as stressed. Their stress hormones are actually lower," Deane Aikins of Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut, told reporters at the American American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in Chicago.

Aikins and colleagues at Yale study stress hormone levels of soldiers undergoing survival training, which includes mock prisoner of war experiences.

Blood samples taken from soldiers in the training programs showed those who fared best under extreme stress had lower levels of the stress hormone cortisol and higher levels of neuropeptide y, a chemical that dampens the body's stress response.

"All of the recovery hormone systems, all of the systems that turn it down, really kick in for these resilient individuals," Aikins said.

"The question is how do you get folks who aren't as cool in stress trained up?"

Aikins and colleagues now are studying whether giving other soldiers a dose of this stress-dampening neuropeptide might help people fare better in combat situations.

He said mental training exercises such as meditation also might help improve the performance of soldiers under stress.

Copyright © 2009 Reuters Limited.

[s_stabeler]

I'm pretty sure that the last time they tried drugs to help soldiers, the drug ended up being banned. ( it was amphetamines, i think)

[JuntaJoe]

They weren't banned. They were restricted. Unless you are an officer and unit commander both then they give the good dope to the medics to dispense in the field. If you get dumped into a high security situation with little scheduled rest then they will pony up the juice.

After the barracks blew in Beruit and we were running 50% watches all the time for several weeks they had to give us more than just coffee. After you had been on the pills a few days and looking crazy they dragged you off and sedated you to rest for 12 hours. Dexadrine for 3-4 days and then a day of Valium to shake it off. Definitely a harsh ride after going a few weeks that way. When the replacements landed they started shipping us off to rest ports, like Haifa. Never saw much more than the lobby of my Haifa hotel. I slept with a bottle of Jim Bean for almost a week there. Hotel manager was so worried he had a couple porters roust us every couple of days for an involuntary shower and 4000 calorie meal.

[s_stabeler]

I meant made illegal. I'm pretty sure in WW2, a now-illegal drug was given to soldiers to help keep them awake.

I agree, it isn't totally dumb to give drugs to soldiers to help keep them awake, as long as you keep in mind the limitations of the human body. ( and when the barracks blew in Beriut is the perfect example of a good idea, although was there any reason why reinforcements couldn't be sent in sooner? did it take that long for the units to be made combat-ready? or was it waiting for the end of the ordinary tour of duty?)

[JuntaJoe]

Dexadrine and Valium are just as illegal as the amphetamine issued in WW2. All are scheduled drugs still allowed to made by labs for prescription only. About the only thing that affects their production is the market. If doctors prescribe them then the labs make them for sale. Naturally the amphetamine that can be made by labs is rarely done any more as doctors prefer to prescribe later developed drugs with less harsh side effects.

As for why we weren't relieved it was a matter of logistics. You can fly over troops, but they need their gear too. Only way to get all that to us was by ship. The troops left the east coast of the US within 36 hours, but they had to make the journey in assault carriers. Even once they arrived we still had to let them organize themselves and create a proper command post. Such is war.

[CooJoe]

That is true. The Marine Exibitionary Force is the fastest deployable unit that the United States has at it's desposal that can sustain itself in combat.
True, the army airborne units can deploy much quicker, but they don't have the gear and logistics to sustain themselves more than a couple of days.

Plus there's the fact that they look like scared little school girls while the Marines guard their flanks.

On drugs, I know at the end of WW2 the germans would mix amphetimines with Chocolate and give it to their troops in a last ditch effort to have a line of methed out soldiers who could possibally stop the allie's advance.

I'm wondering what training methods the article could be talking about in order to bring out better performance under stress. The only thing I could think of is to make training more stressful, and believe me Boot Camp is pretty friggin stressful. 24/7 of some lunatic yelling and spitting in your face, playing stupid games, Making you do mountain climbers in the dirt until your legs are about to fall off, right before you hump. And I'm not talking about the fun kind that happens quite often while home on leave, I'm talking lugging a heavy ass pack up and down some crazy hills. And god help you if you really piss the hats off. Had one chokeslam me against the wall. As you were, bulkhead. I don't even remember what I did. I don't even think I knew what I did, I think it might've been my heinous drill. Then you go to MCT. You think it's gonna be fun, crawl around the dirt, shoot guns talk with Sergeant type deal, but no. The Combat instructors are wannabe drill instructors, without so many rules. They just have to be more creative with they're games. They're not smoking you, they're pting you, oh yeah it's cold out, so make sure you put all your warming layers on first. Got people falling out on the humps? The whole damn platoon needs to run back and make sure they don't die or something.

Anyway, I'm interested to see what they're gonna come out with next. We got the drugs, now where's my mobile power suit?

[JuntaJoe]

Stress?

Mountain Warfare Training Center near Bridgeport, Cali.

Or

Fort Sherman Jungle Warfare School in Panama, though I think it was relocated to Oki after we shut down most Panama operations in the 90's.


Bootcamp ain't got stress like those two places deliver. People really die at those two schools.

[bannie]

Wasn't this the plot line to the Max Payne movie?

[CooJoe]

I've had people tell me the mountain warfare school was nothing, that MCT was worse than that. I heard it from one of my MCT instructors too, so I assume he's telling the truth.

I've heard some stories on the jungle school. I believe you are correct about it being moved to Oki, but we do still conduct jungle training of some sort in panama. Talked with a guy at the USO in San diego who had a sloth claw the crap out of his arm there.

The one school I wouldn't want to do is the cold weather training in Alaska. I could starve in the jungle, I can hump forever, I can handle getting yelled at all day, I can put my body through alot. I'm young we bounce at my age, but I don't do cold.

[JuntaJoe]

MWS must have changed since my day. Guys were falling off ledges and into ravines back then due to exhaustion and lack of sleep.

[CooJoe]

Perhaps, the military is getting softer. In some respects I think it's a good thing, but skimping on training is not a good thing.

[JuntaJoe]

Sorry, old school works.

[CooJoe]

Old school is better in the respect of training. Where I'm saying getting softer is a good thing is living conditions, family services that kind of jazz.

The military is getting too lax on training, especially the army. I've heard from soldiers that in Army boot camp, the drill sergeants aren't allowed to scream at privates, when they smoke privates they have to do the excercises with 'em. Later on they get weekend liberty, smoke breaks and all sorts of jazz. I've heard experts quoted in saying that a Marine POG is on average better trained than the army infantryman. I had an army light colonal say the same thing to me.

[JuntaJoe]

Honestly I'm not so hot on "upgrading" living conditions in regards to comfort.

Sure, if it can be made healthier and safer I'm all for it.

But squad bay living helped adjust Marines to being part of the entire team. When you lost that measure of personal space and privacy you depended on the others to look out for your interests. Everyone learned to watch each other's back. It also taught you how to socially interact with a large group on respectable terms. Finally there was a stronger unit morale element. There were no small dark corners and emotions effected everyone to some degree. An NCO could walk out and gauge the entire mood of the group in a hurry and move to adjust the group think where necessary.

Also, I'm not in big favor for making things easier on families of personnel below Staff NCO grade. Private through buck sergeant grades are better to be single. The Marine has to transition himself to a proper career path before burdening the military with family. No first enlistment Marine should ever have family strings, imo.

[CharlieBrown]

What was that crap that they gave Somali soldiers to get them all druged up?

[JuntaJoe]

Khat.

[CooJoe]

I saw some national geographic special about the effects of LSD, and how it can be used to treat brain injuries (which would help explain how my mom who used to do alot of the drug recovered from a brain aneurism so quickly and so completly.) It mentioned how some normal, non brain damaged people who've dropped acid only 2 or 3 times reported faster reflexes and more attention to detail for the the rest of their lives. I wonder how that would affect the military.

[JuntaJoe]

Too much is unknown about LSD and I'll bet it will take them too long to figure it all out.

Imo, LSD does not in itself make you high. I'm reaching back to my 70's, but you don't forget that stuff. Imo, it makes your brain glands squirt like crazy.

You take so little and you body metabolizes it so incredibly fast there's no way a person can stay high on the actual drug for darn near a whole day. The stuff is virtually undetectable in your system even right after you take it.

I'd say it sends a certain signal to the brain that triggers a hormonal response. There are some powerful drugs right in the brain already.

Even more evidence it simply is making your body do the high is taking more right after you come down and you get almost nothing from it. You are also emotionally and physically worn out. But wait only a couple days and it hits you like a freight train again. Most people have no inclination to take it again right after they come down. That's not how standard drug tolerance works. Tolerance makes you want more and the resistance sticks around a long time.

But you body replenishes it's hormones in fluid rapidly in a healthy person.


Then you have the whole flashback thing. No LSD in you for years and you get high again? Sounds more like a crossed brain wire that somehow remembered the first command and some other event associated with the old highs trips that wire again.


Imo, science needs a long way to go before they figure the stuff out.