castledoom.com

[Psychic Bacon]

Hey folks. Zeke referred me here for assistance putting together a new PC.

To best describe what I want, a quote from Zeke from the forum I usually frequent:

Quote:
Know a guy who had an old barebones shuttle pc he has used for LAN gaming until it got to old for his uses. So he pulled the graphics card and stuffed in the Fatality card with front controller panel, blu-ray player, and a hdtv tuner card with universal remote and now it's his home theater system in a sweet little package. This guy is so bleeding edge his recycled stuff makes me drool. :lol:

With that as a starting point, I decided to scrap the shuttle case in favor of a full size tower, and make this capable of being my primary PC.

I'm on the console side of the PC vs. Console war, so I want this thing to be able to handle current games with as high of setting s money will allow, and last me for at least five years with reasonable upgrades to keep up with technology.

I do not know my budget yet, so I suppose first I'd like someone that knows more than me (read: probably anyone) to help me out on the basics I've set and work from there to come up with something that will work and not cost me my soul.


As an aside, and to hopefully amuse folks that with the times: I looked at parts prices for the first time in about four and half years today and, Holy Crap! The last time I bought RAM it was something like $95 for a 512M stick. Now I'm seeing $20 for a 2G?!? I love technology.



Until the the machines rise up to kill us all.

[JuntaJoe]

Yep, you would be amazed at what you get for your money these days.

Hi PB, I still use the JJ moniker here at this forum. Nope, Joe isn't my name and Zeke is merely my old gaming and military nickname that plays off the fact my last name starts with a Z. Oh, it gets worse! My real first name is Ron, but my family calls me by my middle name because I'm a Jr. Yeah, it's a naming mess I've got here because I wasn't thinking about longevity when I first started using forums a long time ago and now I just have to drag around the multi-name baggage simply so various groups can still recognize me. I do use Zeke at the CN forum attached to Castle Doom home page. So it's only here at this single site where you have to remember one of my alter egos.

Hey, call me what you want as long as you don't call me late for dinner! :P



The first part of this will be to set ourselves some parameters. Even with all the price drops going on you can still drop 5 G's on a high end gaming rig and still not get everything you want. We surely don't want to do that! We need to accept that backing off the bleeding edge a bit is necessary and also bargain hunt at every opportunity. That you accept the idea of upgrading later will be critical in keeping the price down. The bleeding edge stuff today will be bargains next year. So we build last year's bleeding edge computer and in 2 or 3 years you swap out selected parts to again create that almost high end pc.

We also need to know everything you want this pc to do. High end gaming we already know. You would like to link it to your plasma tv monitor. I can take it to assume you would like to also make it your home entertainment center for movies and music. But I also need to know what else you might like it to do. Work, photography, editing, etc.

Coming up with a budget soon is critical for you. Building good pc's is an exercise in compromise. We need to know where to squeeze so we can stretch in other places.

We need to know your skills too. It's not as easy at it looks to make these. Some people can completely scratch build. Some can add to add easier components to pre-built units. Some need the whole thing made. The more you outsource the work the more it costs AND it also limits your options as companies that build pc's are always tied to certain suppliers.

You can save real big money if either you or someone close to you can completely scratch build your unit. It's not just the labor either. Scratch building allows you to grab bargains from unaffiliated sources. Some places simply need to reduce stock on selected high end items and we want to exploit those opportunities.

Once you answer the skills question I can give you some idea on what certain budget ranges offer you.

Also find a specs link to your plasma tv so we can examine its usefulness in this effort.

[CooJoe]

Also, what're the specs on your old rig? Maybe we can salvage something, save some cashola. God knows no one has enough of that these days.

[Psychic Bacon]

JuntaJoe wrote:
The first part of this will be to set ourselves some parameters. Even with all the price drops going on you can still drop 5 G's on a high end gaming rig and still not get everything you want. We surely don't want to do that! We need to accept that backing off the bleeding edge a bit is necessary and also bargain hunt at every opportunity. That you accept the idea of upgrading later will be critical in keeping the price down. The bleeding edge stuff today will be bargains next year. So we build last year's bleeding edge computer and in 2 or 3 years you swap out selected parts to again create that almost high end pc.

Sounds good to me.


JuntaJoe wrote:
We also need to know everything you want this pc to do. High end gaming we already know. You would like to link it to your plasma tv monitor. I can take it to assume you would like to also make it your home entertainment center for movies and music. But I also need to know what else you might like it to do. Work, photography, editing, etc.

Home entertainment and gaming are the major intentions for this. General internetting is the only other requirement.


JuntaJoe wrote:
Coming up with a budget soon is critical for you. Building good pc's is an exercise in compromise. We need to know where to squeeze so we can stretch in other places.

We need to know your skills too. It's not as easy at it looks to make these. Some people can completely scratch build. Some can add to add easier components to pre-built units. Some need the whole thing made. The more you outsource the work the more it costs AND it also limits your options as companies that build pc's are always tied to certain suppliers.

You can save real big money if either you or someone close to you can completely scratch build your unit. It's not just the labor either. Scratch building allows you to grab bargains from unaffiliated sources. Some places simply need to reduce stock on selected high end items and we want to exploit those opportunities.

Once you answer the skills question I can give you some idea on what certain budget ranges offer you.

I am moderately skilled. It's been about four years since I've really screwed with hardware, and I've never done a scratch build. Though, I have a good friend that does this for a living who will be helping me out locally, and will be assisting on the actual build.


JuntaJoe wrote:
Also find a specs link to your plasma tv so we can examine its usefulness in this effort.

Samsung PN50A400

CooJoe wrote: Also, what're the specs on your old rig? Maybe we can salvage something, save some cashola. God knows no one has enough of that these days.

I like your thinking, but I want to keep the old one in one piece. I intend to have the new one semi-permanently set up in living room, so I still need my bedroom comp.

[JuntaJoe]

The very first thing in building a serious pc is determining your motherboard and processor.

While bargain shopping is definitely in order for the mobo, both items need to be very high grade if we hope to keep using it for half a decade.

Processor-wise I've always been an Intel man. While it hasn't always been so, it is clear that Intel is making a far better processor these days. A good quad core from them will last you a long time. They run far cooler too. Another factor important for longevity.


As for mobos, there are a bunch of good brands. Chaintech, MSI, Gigabyte, Asus, EVGA, DFI, and even Intel make good boards. Once we decide on a processor then we can look for mobo deals.


Also, I hope you were planning to take your time with this. Time gets you more informed and saves you money. Sales Deals happen when they happen and rushing forces you to pay full price.

Information is key. It's time to read up a bit. Pick up some pc builder mags from the news stand and poke your nose in. Some of it will make sense and some won't. You just need to read so that old knowledge merges with new info until you hit a critical mass in your head. Also be poking around Tom's Hardware site online. Good reading there.

[Psychic Bacon]

I am definitely planning on taking my time with this. Once I finally make some decisions, I'll likely only be buying one component per check.

Can you get me a link to Tom's?

[JuntaJoe]

No problem. http://www.tomshardware.com/us/

Tell me when you have a couple hundred saved and then we'll start watching for mobo deals.

Here's a good way to buy it by the component and get the deals. First start watching the ads of the local small banks. Doesn't matter if you already have a bank account or three. Just look for a local one offering some kind of promo deal. Make sure the deal allows you to withdraw almost every cent if you need it and gets you a Visa debit card. Everyone takes Visa. Then when a paycheck comes and you want to buy a component I'll give you a rough price and you go stash that amount in that account. You've mentally separated the money in your mind as spent, but it still sits ready to spring into action. We need that flexibility to get deals as they don't happen when you are interested in buying right at an exact moment. The more we deal-grab the more we can pour into this or the lower the total cost can be.

Also tell me what local electronics chains are near you so we can watch their sites in addition to the web sellers. You just never know where you will find a deal.

Last I need to know if you are ok with the idea of an Intel processor. You have to decide that before we can look at mobos, and the mobo decides what else will fit on it.


As an aside, what are you planning to do about an Operating System?

I ask because if you want to stick with XP there is only a limited window left to get boxed versions before MS decides to cancel it. Just for reference, Vista is already dead. A replacement is already scheduled for 2010. So you can stick with dependable XP for a few years and completely leapfrog problem Vista.

[ExarKun]

I recently did this as well, currently have an ASUS mobo with and ASUS HDTV tuner, a ASUS HD 4870 1 gb ddr5 video card, a ASUS Physx Card, Intel Quad Core Q6600 2.4 ghz computer, with a ASUS fan... there is a small theme you may notice there... 2 Western Digital Corsair 320 GB HDD's , a Lightscribe 16x DVD rw drive and a NETEC 20x DVD Rom drive. I also have 8 gigs of OCZ fatl1ty ddr 2 pc 6400 ram

All of this powered with a 650 w Antex PSU.

Vista Home Premium 64 bit is what I currently use for OS

Though I have XP home and Ubuntu Linux on it, I have one HDD as my hard disk my tv tuner records shows to, the other drive has 200 gigs for Vista for games and anything else, while I split 50 gigs for XP and Linux, I did this cause I like to experiment, you may not be into 3 different OS's on your rig.

Something to remember about Windows, if it isn't 64 bit it won't recognize ram past 3 gigs, XP and Vista both have this problem. So if you want more than 3 gigs on either OS you will need to get a 64 bit version, to be frank I have never even looked for a XP 64 bit.

I run this off of a Vizio 32 inch HDTV via HDMI. If you have any questions about my experience i'll answer what I can.

The TV came from Wal-Mart, and really there is a great deal of good HDTV's that you just gotta wait till the size and price you want come up.

For my parts I used passmark, Tom's Hardware, and GPUreview to try and find info on the parts, and ended up getting like 90% of the parts from Newegg.com and a small portion for Tigetdirect.com

[JuntaJoe]

A steal!

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-SP2C-System-Builders/dp/B000R46PN0/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1230941970&sr=8-1

XP Pro designed for DIY builders in 64 bit as cheap as $150 new or an unused open box for $125. Only problem is that they are OEM versions. You can't find retail versions of anything XP anymore unless you want to spend hundreds of dollars for the rare hoarded versions.

But the real deals to be had is if you know someone going to a major university. Most universities have a limited program for students to buy it for 50-75% off! They are limited to one copy per year however.

Seriously, if you know someone going to a 4 year university near you then bug the crap out of them to search the campus for the software sales to see if they have the program there. You could get a new OS for $40 or less!

[ExarKun]

I could download Vista Buisness or XP pro for free to use from a program one of my proffesors got me in, though I never checked to see if they would let me download a 64 bit XP, they did have a 64bit Vista.

I have a copy of Vista Business both 32 and 64, but I didn't want it as my main OS, so got Home Premium. I just can't see why people would wanna buy Vista Ultimate. Hell even Vista Premium was a steal for me cause I was able to buy a copy off a Office Depot that was going out business near me about 6 months ago for 60% off, last copy I could find too.

[Psychic Bacon]

JuntaJoe wrote: No problem. http://www.tomshardware.com/us/

Tell me when you have a couple hundred saved and then we'll start watching for mobo deals.

Here's a good way to buy it by the component and get the deals. First start watching the ads of the local small banks. Doesn't matter if you already have a bank account or three. Just look for a local one offering some kind of promo deal. Make sure the deal allows you to withdraw almost every cent if you need it and gets you a Visa debit card. Everyone takes Visa. Then when a paycheck comes and you want to buy a component I'll give you a rough price and you go stash that amount in that account. You've mentally separated the money in your mind as spent, but it still sits ready to spring into action. We need that flexibility to get deals as they don't happen when you are interested in buying right at an exact moment. The more we deal-grab the more we can pour into this or the lower the total cost can be.

Also tell me what local electronics chains are near you so we can watch their sites in addition to the web sellers. You just never know where you will find a deal.

Last I need to know if you are ok with the idea of an Intel processor. You have to decide that before we can look at mobos, and the mobo decides what else will fit on it.


As an aside, what are you planning to do about an Operating System?

I ask because if you want to stick with XP there is only a limited window left to get boxed versions before MS decides to cancel it. Just for reference, Vista is already dead. A replacement is already scheduled for 2010. So you can stick with dependable XP for a few years and completely leapfrog problem Vista.

Just out of curiosity, what is your gripe with Vista? I hated it at first, but now that I've been using it for a year, I like it a lot more than XP.

[JuntaJoe]

It's a hog and its buggy.

If you have any old games that run on XP then you would know they all seems to have issues with Vista.


If you don't plan on running any older games and are willing to increase your drives and memory then we can go with Vista.

The only reason I could see bothering with Vista is if you would prefer a true Retail version instead of an OEM version. These days there are no more Retail versions of XP on the market unless you want to pay huge money at an auction site.

[bannie]

JuntaJoe wrote: It's a hog and its buggy.

If you have any old games that run on XP then you would know they all seems to have issues with Vista.


Joe's right. Vista's a hog when it comes to RAM unless you decide to turn off a large amount of the features.

Joe is also correct about the Intel's temp. I have a 3.2 Ghz 64 bit AMD Mobile Athalon processor with 2 Ghz of RAM and it runs hot.

However, I've never had a problem with XP with the four years Ive had this laptop (other than the ones that were my own damn fault) while my two little sister's laptops (Which are both Vista) have both been replaced twice.

[ExarKun]

expect for extra resources for Vista, I haven't had to many problems. Old games not working? I got TIE FIGHTER to run, they don't come a lot older than that and I couldn't do it on XP.

When I started I had some problems, but I have found it stable enough. Course as the old saying goes, if it aint broke don't fix it, kinda applies to XP. I tell someone if they have any worries with Vista don't. It aint worth it to be disappointed if your not ready for it.

Me, I upgraded, and love it a lot. The extra resources doesn't bother me to much cause I don't feel like a real man without 6 gigs or more of ram.

Though in all honesty it does what it does, and I think it does it better than it used to, just don't try and use a 2 year old printer.

[JuntaJoe]

Like I said, I'll help advise on a Vista rig. I just don't like Vista.

I do know that the more resources you give it the more stable it is.

I do know I've never been a fan of OEM software versions and that's all you can buy these days for XP.

So though I don't like Vista I do realize that XP options are running thin and Vista can be made workable if you give it the right resources and know how to tweak it properly.

[ExarKun]

the theory behind the more resources coming from M$ camp is that Vista boots up everything it can to make sure more programs you use load at the beginning instead of having to wait for them when you need them.

Course that doesn't explain everything away, just what they tried to say once.

[s_stabeler]

one thing- I have a 2.4GHz dual-core PC with 2GB of RAM, and Vista is stable. turn off UAC thouhg, and you should be fine.

[JuntaJoe]

2 gigs of ram in a new rig with Vista?

Hey, with ram so cheap and the 64 bit processing of Vista a new rig builder would be a fool to go with less than 4 gigs.

I was definitely thinking about 8 gigs for this one and the ability to come in later to boost up to 16. Already seem mobos that will take 16, so why not? This rig has as part of its criteria the ability to upgrade later and you can be sure that if there is only one ultra premium part in this it will be the mobo. Do that and anything done later is a breeze. Nothing worse than hitting the limit right out of the gate and praying that will keep you in the game 4-5 years from now.

Bleeding edge mobo and everything else can be just respectable. That will give PB the rig to play games today and retool for games 4 years from now. Though if we find deals on other high end components then we will definitely look to jump at those.

[s_stabeler]

and who said I had a choice? it was a birthday present ( I had asked for a new graphics card, BTW, as my old one was fried)

[ExarKun]

I have the six gigs of ram but my mobo can take 16. currently to get to 16 is to expensive for it to be worth it, but I have been eying upgrading to 8 got awhile.

I just RAID 0'ed my HDD's, why I have not been around these parts for awhile, trying to get my computer back to full force and I just don't have the time as much as I would like to baby sit it.