castledoom.com

[JuntaJoe]

Always a popular topic for debate here, so I figure this would be a good time to start one of my themed threads.

We'll start this off with one of my pet peeves.

[JuntaJoe]

Experts Dissatisfied With P.E. Classes

January 17, 2005 8:30 PM EST

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - As American children grow fatter and more out of shape, physical education classes are being found wanting. Experts say there's little accountability for P.E. teachers in most schools. They say the classes are often poorly run, and students don't spend much time in them anyway.

Lisa Lewis, a health professor, heard her two sons talk about how bad their high school P.E. class was, so she went to see for herself.

"It's been terrible," she said. The teacher was a basketball coach, and "that's basically all they did - play basketball between 40 and 50 kids." Many students, especially those who weren't athletic, just stood on the sidelines of the disorganized game.

Nearly one-fifth of all high school P.E. teachers don't have a major and certification in physical education, according to the most recent numbers from the National Center for Education Statistics.

Often the instructor is a coach more interested in winning games than in producing healthy students, experts say.

"That stigma that a coach cares more about the team than his physical education class does exist," said George Graham, professor of kinesiology at Penn State University.

"When a teacher or coach is doing that, it's really up to the principal to get in there and say, 'We want to win ball games, but the kids in P.E. deserve a good education too.'"

The lack of respect for P.E. also appears in the number of students required to take it.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that in 2003, only 28 percent of high school students nationwide attended a daily P.E. class, but 38 percent watched television for three hours or more each school night.

While 71 percent of the nation's freshmen were in P.E. at least one day a week - hardly enough to be effective, experts say - those numbers drop to 40 percent by the students' senior year.

But participation varies widely by state. In Tennessee, for instance, only 18 percent of seniors were enrolled in a P.E. class, while New York has better than 90 percent participation.

The National Association for Sport and Physical Education says Illinois is the only state that requires daily physical education K-12, while Alabama requires it for K-8.

In California, Kentucky, Maine, Missouri, New York, South Carolina and Vermont, accountability standards are being developed for health and physical education programs.

"Unless we hold physical education teachers accountable for the fitness of the student ... there's no way to evaluate who is good or who is bad because we're more concerned with math and reading," Lewis said. "There needs to be some sort of minimal national fitness standard - that would be a very easy thing to establish."

Some schools have done just that - like the Victor Central School District just outside Rochester in Victor, N.Y.

Superintendent Timothy J. McElheran said his teachers are held to specific goals and judged like any math or science teacher would be.

"It's no longer the coach with the whistle around his neck," he said. "Our physical education teachers are highly trained professionals."

Victor's nationally recognized program includes rock-climbing, kayaking, cross-country skiing, archery and aerobic dance as options for students.

"They take what they're doing very seriously," he said.

But not all do, and a new federal education law doesn't give schools much incentive.

"The thought in some schools is, 'If we eliminate P.E., then they will have more time to do better educationally,' but there's nothing to suggest that's the case," Graham said.

"Kids - just like adults at work - need breaks and they need time on their own."

Lewis has seen the poor state of physical education not only in her sons' school, but also at Middle Tennessee State University where she works. The school recently dropped requirements for health and P.E. from the core curriculum.

MTSU general education director Bill Badley said the P.E. requirement went from four hours to zero when the school decided to add classes to the core curriculum while lowering the total number of classes needed to graduate.

Lewis wasn't able to stop the changes at MTSU, but she was able to make a difference at her sons' school.

"I went to the class and actually helped the physical educator," Lewis said. "The non-athletes, they're the ones who need it most."

NASPE president Dolly Lambdin said the cuts in secondary schools and colleges intensify the problem that begins at a young age.

"Whatever belief we teach (children) in elementary school, middle school and high school, those beliefs will carry over in college," she said. "We can't continue the model (that) we have to fix things later. It doesn't work on your car and it doesn't work on your body. Physical maintenance is the key."

Copyright 2004 Associated Press.

When will those competition haters realize we are killing our kids?!

[DrJoshuaFalken]

Phys Ed is a daft waste of time and should be abolished.

It was so easy to ditch that class, just show up for the two roll calls and theyll never notice.

[JuntaJoe]

Or we should make it mandatory for 1 hour per day and actually make you move for the entire hour.

If you ditched back in my day then you got several swats from a football coach with a paddle that resembled an oar.

[CooJoe]

I agree with Joe, here.

But we need to make sure that the coaches know what they're doing.

I'll give you an example. While I havn't taken PE at my school yet. (not a deal, 'cause I workout on my own.) the teacher (Whose also the baseball coach) has no idea what he's doing.

Here's some gems that I've heard from him while we were lifting weights in Baseball.

"Don't add bulk, that just slows you down" (even though Pro Baseball players have been getting bigger, and bigger.)

"Squats will make you fat." (No Scientific basis)

"Deadlifts will hurt your back." (If executed properally they strengthen your back muscles, and reduce injury.)

That on top of his belief that curls are the best power builder.

Just an example.

I agree with you, that students need P.E. every day to keep in good condition.

I look at my peers, and many of them can't run a mile without having a stroke, or do 10 pushups.

This country is getting fatter, and fatter. I fear that mine may be the 1st generation to not live longer lives than our parents.

And Doc, you're only hurting yourself by skipping out of P.E.

[Brf]

PE is a waste. I never had PE in highschool.... I took JROTC instead. Leadership training, marksmanship, first aid, discipline..... much better than PE.

[CooJoe]

The PE course at many schools includes first aid.

Leadership skills aren't really learned, it's really more something in your personallity.

Discipline should be taught in the whole of the school system

Marksmanship, that's a good point. Many people in this country don't learn how to shoot. I had the fortune to have shot often since I was 9, with both my father, and scout troop, but many do not have this oppurtunity.

Many hunting accidents could be prevented if people could shoot accuratly.

Maybe P.E. could be mixed in with JROTC somehow.

Have based around an ROTC like program, with the emphasis on fitness, but also include the military stuff, such as the shooting, condidence course, hand to hand ect.

[NibbyCat]

In my high school (a private boarding school), in the fall the girls play field hockey and the guys play soccer. Winter was tumbling, some dexterity-building "dances" (folk dancing, or "poly-poles"), and calisthenics, then volleyball or basketball, and the calisthenics. In the spring is softball or baseball, or tennis. When I was there, there were more students, so we'd be on "teams", going every other afternoon.

I think I would have benefited from an elementary-level PE teacher finding what I enjoyed, and helping me develop a routine that could carry me through.

I hated team sports, but loved the dancing sections. Getting into the habit of just being ACTIVE, moving, including motions that aren't in the day-to-day walking around, that would have at least given me something to fall back on at home.

[JuntaJoe]

I'd say that a fitness based ROTC or joining a school sport would be an acceptable substitute for mandatory PE. It was like that when I went to school. As long as the student gets the excercise then I see no problem with the method.


As for "team" play in general PE classes, I see no way around it. If the coaches just stick with calesthetics or track and field sports then the monotony will be grinding on the kids. Team play also allows fewer coaches to supervise a large group.

Yeah, I know that lots of kids hate team play as they feel inadequate. Tough noogies, imo. Life is about competition with a liberal dosing of team activity.


A typical PE week for me was one day of swimming, one day of track and field, one day of team sports in the gym (basketball or volleyball), one day of outside team sports (softball or football), and one "free day".

Fridays we were allowed to pick what we wanted and the coaches just wandered all the activity areas without handling their own group. Yeah, that day was easy to skip, but most of us were active enough to want to do something. Ultimate frisbee and combat handball were popular. I was a handball player. We used the back of the gym wall outside and played on concrete. And we regulars had callouses on our palms like leather. You went for the ball even if it meant sliding across the concrete. Friday was always a bloody day for me. Coaches usually had to task some wimps to hose our blood off the courts afterwards and chastise them by showing that real men were competitive regardless of the danger.

Yep, I can vouch for PE not being a fun party, but I was kept moving for an hour a day. The only fat people at my school had glandular conditions. And they played anyway. It kept them in tolerable shape. My highschool graduated almost 2000 healthy educated kids a year. Back then, parents got a quality return on their school property taxes.

[DrJoshuaFalken]

JuntaJoe wrote:
If you ditched back in my day then you got several swats from a football coach with a paddle that resembled an oar.

Remember Charlie the Tuna's rule: Dont get caught.

[JuntaJoe]

It was pretty impossible to ditch except on Friday.

And Friday was actually fun for most of us. So why ditch class?


As for the other days, you were required to dress for gym before roll call. That meant trying to ditch class while in red shorts and a white t-shirt. Not exactly unconspicuous in the halls, eh? They locked the locker room during roll call for the rest of the period and usually had a coach or two monitor places close that were good for a fast clothing change. These coaches knew lots of kids wanted to skip and had learned all the tricks over the years. The only real option was to sneak all the way across the school for a change while in those day-glo colors. Many tried......few made it. :lol:

[Eddy]

If they made gym classes fun instead of humiliating maybe people would choose to do physical activity when they didn't have to instead of avoiding it like the plague. To this day I will not wear a pair of shorts or go outside without a shirt on because of this.

[JuntaJoe]

Yep, some coaches try to shame you into shape.

Bad idea. This works in the military because you have no place to hide and the mind control is complete. The psychology is to totally break you and push you through the other side. Along the way you actually get in better physical shape and esteem returns. This process simply can't be done in half measures.

Coaches would better be served by a fair but firm fatherly tactic where he rewards results, no matter how small, and uses group punishment for individual failure. So while you would still be harrassed by your peers at first they would eventually learn to drag you along. The element of cruelty still exists, but is channeled properly. The element of cruelty cannot be discarded in the act of getting someone healthy. Any healthy person will tell you that denial and cruel discipline were necessary to shrug off slovenly ways. At some point the individual will do the cruelty himself to further his health goals.

[DrJoshuaFalken]

JuntaJoe wrote: Many tried......few made it.

Were the ones who failed shot?

[JuntaJoe]

Close.

Corporal punishment had evolved into an art form by my day.

Coaches would bug science teachers on the physics of making paddles more efficient and painful. Shop teachers would be enlisted to make these instruments of obedience.

The result? Three good swats and the biggest linebacker was humbled to tears.

No principal would ever mandate more than five swats by coaches as that would surely send the recipient to the hospital for sewing back up. Five swats always drew a little blood. Three would have you avoiding sitting down for days. Yep, they beat our butts black and blue back then.

The only way it could have been worse is if the schools had instituted the old naval practices of lashings.

Only the blind stupid didn't fear the promise of a few swats.

[CooJoe]

Sounds scary, but it may be what society needs.

[Morticcia]

Yes if you're going to hire a PE teacher they should be qualified, blah blah blah. But their lack of qualifications is a failing of the school system, not the cause of rising childhood obesity rates

The problem with this whole PE argument is the main argument against the school system in general. Public education is being used by this country's parents as a substitute for their own lack of involvement.

It should not be the responsibility of schools to keep kids slim. It is the parents' obligation to feed their children appropriately and to encourage a healthy, active lifestyle.

[JuntaJoe]

Oh, I agree about parental responsibility.

It was the fanatical drive to make kids ready for a good college that got us into this mess.

High numbers the parents screamed. Toss in some lawsuits for bad grades and the teachers began teaching to the tests.

Then you had a society shift in child activity as parents locked their kids in the house for safety.

And I think the shift to corn sweeteners played a part as well.


It is the parents that will need to push school boards into reviving PE systems.

The teacher unions can find ways to distort government rules to their own desires.

But school boards are a different matter as they influence how the money is spent.

That's where parents can shift the PE system by voting in the board members that reflect their desires.

I've always said that local elections influence a person's daily life more, but people pay more attention to the bigger national elections as they get more media play.

[Che]

I father and son in Wisconsin are challanging summer homework for high-school Honors students.

They want it banned... state-wide.

The son knew this was a requirement... when he has accepted into the Honors program.

The teenager stated that it stressed him out to much :roll:

The suit should be dismissed and the father hit with filing a frivolous law-suit.

[JuntaJoe]

The father will argue that refusing the honors program keeps his kid out of a good college.

He has valid argument.

To a point.

Was the summer program new?

If so, I can see the reason for having the kid join and then filing suit.

But if the program is older than one year the father has no leg to stand on.

The father could have sued beforehand.

But if it was new then he really had no choice but to enroll the kid as not doing it would have hurt the kid's academic record.

We obviously don't have enough facts here to judge the merits of the case.

I've always felt that parents did protesting of school rules the wrong way. Dress codes are a common issue. Sure, fight the system if you want, but don't hurt the kid by getting him expelled by letting him wear a concert t-shirt or hold him out of class. Have the kid play by the rules and let the adults do the arguing.

Reminds me about getting a speeding ticket that you think is wrong. The roadside isn't a courtroom. Sign the ticket and be respectful. Then fight the ticket in court.




My personal opinion is that required summer work is stupid, but that's irrelevant to this matter. I've never been a fan of year round school for minors. A kid needs time to be a kid.