castledoom.com

[Che]

I have been into WW1 "studies" for several months. I have come to the understanding that the Central Powers deserved to lose... for being such dolts and idiots. The ol' myth of the Germans planning to conquer the world... needs to be tossed into the waste-bin.

War was a given for the early 1900's... it was just a matter of when.

In my wargaming, I stand on the defense along the German-French border. Four armies, out of the initial eight German armies, are easily able to hold this front. I'm able to bleed the French very effectively of more resources than it can afford.

I DO NOT invade Belgium and incur the wrath of the Brits. There would not have been a British DoW in August... if Germany had stand out of Belgium. There would not have been an effective blockade of German ports.

In the days leading up to war, the British government informed the French and Germans, it would declare war on which country violated Belgium neutrality... first. They actually warned the French government, several times, to not expand any future conflict to Belgium.

I pursue an active policy on the Southern Front (Serbia/Balkans) and the Eastern Front (Russia). The rail connection to Turkey is secured by the CP... within the first year of war. Without the Brits, the French and Russians cannot hurt the Turks. Russia's weak southern border is exposed to the Central Powers.

Austria-Hungary, with German help, is able to easily over-run Serbia. Bulgaria quickly joins the CP for its share of Serbia. Romania maintains a policy of friendly neutrality. Italy might even be thinking about honoring its treaty commitments to Germany and Austria-Hungary.

It is not hard to knock Russia out of the war... by the end of 1916. The French do not have the resources to maintain Russia, by this time, in the war. Germany gets Poland and the Baltic states... A-H gets Galicia and the Ukraine.

An exhausted France sues for peace during 1917... with its army in a state of mutiny.

[Che]

My first post dealt primarily with the land struggle... I wanted to check a few things beforing commenting on the naval line-up.

Without the British fleet, the French and Russians are out-classed by the German fleet... on its own.

The Austria-Hungary Navy is almost a match for the French in the Med. Only a few German capital ships are required to tip the balance. If Italy keeps its treaty commitments... the French have no chance at all in the Med.

The German Navy can easily blockade the French in the Atlantic. There will be assets available to disrupt the overseas supply-lines of France.

The Germans actually have a larger fleet than is necessary... without British involvement. If Germany had built a few less Dreadnaughts... England would have been a lot friendly.

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Added 1/17/05

Without a casus belli in regards to Belgium... Britain is check-mated.

The "peace faction" that controlled the Cabinet would have maintained their dominance for at least another year.

Labor unrest and Irish Home Rulers would quickly focus the Brit Gov't on other issues.

The Brits would have ended up deciding to make millions off of suppling all belligerents.

Germany Navy:

Dreadnaught Battleships ----------- 15 in svc/5 under construction
Pre-Dreadnaught Battleships ------- 22
BattleCruisers --------------------- 5 in svc/3 under construction
Coastal-defense Battleships -------- 8
Armored Cruisers ------------------ 7
Protected Cruisers ---------------- 17
Light Cruisers --------------------- 16
Destroyers ------------------------ 90
Torpedo Boats -------------------- 115
Submarines ----------------------- 31


Austria-Hungary Navy:

Dreadnaught Battleships ----------- 3
Semi-Dreadnaught Battleships ----- 3
Pre-Dreadnaught Battleships ------- 6
Coastal-defense Battleships ------- 3
Armored Cruisers ------------------ 2
Protected cruisers ---------------- 3
Light cruisers --------------------- 2
Destroyers ----------------------- 18
Torpedo Boats ------------------- 60-70
Submarines ----------------------- 5


French Navy:

Dreadnaught Battleships ---------- 2 + 2 under-going sea trials
Semi-Dreadnaught Battleships ---- 6
Pre-Dreadnaught Battleships ----- 14
Coastal-defense Battleships ------ 1
Armored Crusiers ---------------- 19
Protected Crusiers --------------- 9
Destroyers ---------------------- 81
Large Torpedo Boats ------------- 17
Small Torpedo Boats ------------- 170
Submarines --------------------- 67-75


Russian Navy:

Pre-Dreadnaught Battleships
Baltic ------------ 5
Black Sea -------- 5
FarEast ---------- 0

Coastal-defense Battleships
Baltic ------------ 0
Black Sea -------- 1
FarEast ---------- 0

Armored Cruisers
Baltic ------------ 6
Black Sea -------- 0
FarEast ---------- 0

Protected Cruisers
Baltic ------------ 4
Black Sea -------- 2
FarEast ---------- 2

Destroyers
Baltic ------------ 21
Black Sea -------- 4
FarEast ---------- 17

Torpedo Boats
Baltic ------------ 48
Black Sea -------- 24
FarEast ---------- 3

Gunboats
Baltic ------------ 7
Black Sea -------- 5
FarEast ---------- 1

Submarines
Baltic ------------ 15
Black Sea -------- 7
FarEast ---------- 4

Ships assigned to the Russian Far East Flotilla were old and poorly maintained.

[Che]

AAAAAGGGGGHHHH... it has been a nightmare with the wargaming.

I have not found a satisfactory game (board or PC) that simulates WW1 on an acceptable grand-strategical level. I dug through my boxes of old boardgames and decided to use two oldies for my map-work.

To cover the land conflict... I chose a game called World War One by Decision Games. Hexes are 70 klicks across and it utilizes Armies as the main military formation.

It handles the effects of attritional warfare very well. Combat losses are resolved by either retreats or spending your precious Resource Points.

It is to easy... without England to deal with as a foe. Germany is to strong for France and Russia to handle.

For my naval wargaming, I chose Avalon Hills classic... War at Sea. I know... this is a game about WW2 naval warfare. Fortunately... over three decades ago, I bought the WW1 variant, with new ships, to use with it.

It is even an easier romp for the German's at sea. A German blockade of France is possible... within a few months of the war's outbreak. This blockade has the potential of becoming a flash-pont with the Brits.

The Germans even have enough ships to send a few Dread's to the Pacific. The Far East Flotilla is turned into scrap... by the cruisers that accompany the German Big-boys.

[JuntaJoe]

Yep, Germany always made the same mistake.

Getting the Brits involved. In both wars, the royal house of Britain had sympathies to Germany and would have prefered to stay on the sidelines.

Germany didn't need Poland yet anyway. He could have waited for Russia to attack them and claimed he was coming to their defense.

As for the second world war, an attack on the Maginot Line was within the capabilities of the German Army. The line was a static defense designed to thward WW1 tactics. Breaching that line with railcar cannon would have been childsplay. Air bombing it would have crushed it. Mechanized assault would have sped through any gap made and left Paris ripe for the taking.


Well, here I am going on about the wrong war. :oops:

[Che]

Stupidity seems to be a by-product of autocratic rule :roll:

If the Germans had truly been planning on world domination... the Second Reich would still control a United Europe.

Research shows that they were spending far less on the military than was easily possible.

About 20% of the German budget... compared to 37% of the France budget.

The pre-war conscription rate could have been raised significantly... if they had been planning on using it.

[JuntaJoe]

Actually, using those lower numbers would have helped Germany in the long run.

Everyone now knows that consolidating power after a war costs money.

Grabbing Europe under those budget constraints would have helped them rebuild in the conquered territories.

[sethwbcl91]

Very cool Che! I am really into WWII. I love learning about the battles and especially the aircraft used during the war.

[s_stabeler]

it's possible to argue that there were several things that the germans did wrong in the second world war. 1. they switched to bombing the cities at the point they would have destroyed the RAF. had they continued, britain woud probably have been overrun. 2. not organising resistance properly to the D-Day landings. the various commanders were either asleep (hitler), on holiday( the commanders meant to organise resistance) or otherwise distracted. interestingly enough, no-one dared wake hitler until the afternoon think what would have happened if they had. the germans probably could have beaten off the D-day landings. oh, another mistake was allying with the japanese, who brought america into the war. once america was in the war, it might have been winnable without it, bt it did help a lot to have the worlds biggest economy on our side ( at that time, american dollars were considered as good as gold). so, a catalogue of errors. oh, and the invasion of the USSR, that was the beginning of the end for the germans

[sethwbcl91]

s_stabeler wrote: it's possible to argue that there were several things that the germans did wrong in the second world war. 1. they switched to bombing the cities at the point they would have destroyed the RAF. had they continued, britain woud probably have been overrun. 2. not organising resistance properly to the D-Day landings. the various commanders were either asleep (hitler), on holiday( the commanders meant to organise resistance) or otherwise distracted. interestingly enough, no-one dared wake hitler until the afternoon think what would have happened if they had. the germans probably could have beaten off the D-day landings. oh, another mistake was allying with the japanese, who brought america into the war. once america was in the war, it might have been winnable without it, bt it did help a lot to have the worlds biggest economy on our side ( at that time, american dollars were considered as good as gold). so, a catalogue of errors. oh, and the invasion of the USSR, that was the beginning of the end for the germans

Yes, you are exactly right! :D Also, Hitler assumed that things would go the way he wanted them to all the time and sometimes they didn't. A good example would be the invasion of the USSR. Also he may of not of known everything because if a commander, or someone else, came to him to report how things were going, and they were going bad, he could have has they person killed. He was short tempered. :lol: :wink: :D

[Maus]

Err... has anyone noticed that this thread is devoted to World War ONE? Thus, any discussion of Hitler should be limited to his service as an Infantry courier and his winning of the Iron Cross shortly before the end of hostilities. :?

[JuntaJoe]

If you wish to start a WW2 thread then go for it, but I'll delete any more commentary of it in this thread.

This thread is for WW1 only.