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[Che]

Any interesting combo of authors, Newt Gingrich and William R. Forstchen, have created a very good ACW alternate history.

There are two books currently comprising the series:

Gettysburg

Grant Comes East

The door was left standing wide open for a third book.

It is obvious that these two gentlemen know their topic and how to present it.

The books read so well... that I frequently found himself forgetting what was the fiction :D

If you are any kind of ACW buff... these books belong in your collection.

[JuntaJoe]

Old Newt is quite the scholar. I've known this for years.

Imo, he's found his niche. He's perfect as a pundit, author, and professor.

Being a Congressman doesn't really let your insight show when all you get is 30 second sound bites.

As a pundit, he's really a breath of fresh air. He always takes a path in the conversation you don't expect and seems to never hold back on anyone what he considers the truth and still manages to be polite about it.

He'd be brutal on our debate board. :lol:

As for these books, I need to hunt them down.

I have no doubt they are well crafted.

Could you post their ISBN's, please?

[Che]

Gettysburg

ISBN 0-312-30935-X (hc)
ISBN 0-312-30936-8 (pbk)

Grant Comes East

ISBN 0-312-30937-6 (hc)

[JuntaJoe]

I'll pick up Gettysburg in the next few days and wait for the second one to be issued in paperback.

I'll post a review of the first soon.

[Che]

According to Amazon... Grant Comes East is out in paperback.

Also, the third book is scheduled to be released in HC... soon.

Never Call Retreat : Lee and Grant: The Final Victory

[JuntaJoe]

Well, I found Gettysburg in paperback, finally.

Don't ever mention Newt's name to those young latte-sipping artsy-fartsy chuckleheads that operate the bookstores. They will leave you on hold/ignore when you call. They will send you all over the store to wrong areas and will have amazing difficulty with looking it up in the computer.

I finally found it myself in the general fiction section.

General fiction?

I could see Sci-Fi, military history, or military fiction.

I'll start it up tonight and give a wrap up in a few days.

[JuntaJoe]

Ok, I got to page 151 last night and really liked it.

I'm just past the point where the authors made the shift in history when Lee decided to stay in place at Gettysburg and assault those hills.

I admit to seeing the wisdom in the authors shift as I was a fan of Longstreet's original idea of shifting a short distance to hit the weak sides and lure the North to them.

The idea of moving to the Westminister railhead seems like genius on the authors part. Of course, the troops have just begun shifting so I don't know how well it will go yet.

Btw, the paperback is a trade paperback. Ouch! There goes $15. The story is worth it, but I'll always be a fan of the bulk print paperback. At $7 these days, it's not like they are losing any money.

[Che]

heheheh... I figured that you would like it.

I may start a re-read of the series... myself.

I'm eager to get the third book... part of it deals with Lee vs. slavery.

I very curious to see how the authors deal with that time-bomb.

[JuntaJoe]

The Industrial Revolution would have dealt with slavery anyway.

Machines are cheaper than slaves on the farm and factories need heavy workers.

Slaves would have integrated into the workforce and joined the union movements.

While freedom would have come 20 years later the blacks would have integrated into the work society some 50 years sooner.

[Che]

Newt and William have to come up with a quick fix... that will be OK with the Brits and French public.

Some discussions in Book #2... has got Bobby Lee thinking about Black Confederate soldiers :twisted:

Historically, Lee was opposed to slavery, but refrained from getting involved in the politics that went with it.

[JuntaJoe]

Turtledove touched on this idea a couple years ago.

Wonder what Newt's been reading in his spare time? :P

[JuntaJoe]

Up until 2 last night burning through 200 more pages.

Put the book down on the eve of the Pipe Creek battle.


It seems that the authors have decided the method of believability would be requiring that no plan works smoothly. Even success must go through the worst case scenario rule. I like that. Nothing works perfectly and success is always barely achieved. But they throw it all out the window once and that irritates me. The farmer who leads Longstreet to the right place in the nick of time was simply too convenient. Without his help Hancock would have overrun him. It would have been easier just to slow up Hancock or speed up Longstreet on their travels instead of relying on the farmer plot device. I can't believe that some historian who was proofreading for the authors didn't roll their eyes at this.


I do have to commend whomever decided the layout. Most history uses pictures as a crutch or an impediment. You either get tons of them stretching out the book or this fat group in the middle that acts like an interlude. Instead the sparingly used pictures are placed to give character to the part of the story they are in. And the maps were a great idea. You can read all you want about wagons, mud, and the like without really experiencing the primitiveness of it all. But the hand drawn maps really bring it home. Imagine trying to wield a hundred thousand men with hand drawn scraps. Cripes, I need a grid map just to get myself around!

[Che]

Quote: I can't believe that some historian who was proofreading for the authors didn't roll their eyes at this.


William R. Forstchen is a historian... he has a PhD in Military History. He has written non-ficition on the ACW, too. Plus, he is a Professor of History at a university.

I suspect that the farmer plot-device has a historical background. Similar incidents happened more than once during The War.

Yes, the "hand-drawn" maps were a sweet touch.

I checked Barnes & Nobles for the third book in the series... today. Not on the shelves and the pretty (but stupid) young lady at the info kiosk... could not find anything in the computer.

[Baron]

This sounds rather interesting.

Now...in our textbooks, one thing the authors talked about was that the invention of the Cotton Gin made cotton a high-demand product. If it weren't for it's invention, slavery might of died a quiet death...supposedly.

I believe that Ayn Rand says in her book, Capitalism, that it was essential that the North invade the South...it was the industrial, free North that invaded, reformed, and set right the agrarian, feudal South.

If it weren't for the Civil War, supposedly, the South would of remained unindustrialized...thus, no factories, no unions, and no black freedom.

[JuntaJoe]

Che wrote:
I suspect that the farmer plot-device has a historical background. Similar incidents happened more than once during The War.

Oh, I know that "local info" was rampant in the war.

It was just the way the farmer made everything work in the nick of time.

Since this part of the story was after the history twist, the authors had a bit of lattitude in telling the story.

Any number of factors could have been employed to get Longstreet there on time.

So having a friendly stranger get immediate access in a war camp and drag the general to the perfect spot with only moments to spare seems rather trite after all the other hard work of sending Confederate plans through the grinder in order to succeed.

And while I don't consider myself capable of remotely producing such a work of literature, I could certainly have made that part a bit more plausible with several options. As a plot device, it was handled poorly, imo.

Anywho, I'm finished with the book. The end didn't give much lead into the next book. While not necessary, it might have raised interest for the next book. But you can't fault the authors for a weak ending. The Pipe Creek battle was stunning. A true bloodbath of heroic proportions.

I'll be interested in the next volume, for sure. I just need to check other bookstores as the one I used only had the paperback copy of the first volume. I'll pay $15 if I must, but the only books I like in expensive hardback are reference, scientific, and WEB Griffith Marine books.


As for Rand, Baron, I've learned to treat her works like the books of the Bible. Good philosophy and insight, but dangerous to take in its literal form. Reconstruction destroyed several Southern centers of war industry that would have given the South a nucleus for an industrial base. I also feel that slavery was an its end anyway and this would have encouraged immigration to shift south over the next few decades.

[Che]

In Vol. 2, Grant moves on to center stage.

Dan Sickles is also a major character.

Judah P. Benjamin begins exposing Lee to the politics and harsh realities of the war.

[JuntaJoe]

Che wrote: In Vol. 2, Grant moves on to center stage.

Dan Sickles is also a major character.

Judah P. Benjamin begins exposing Lee to the politics and harsh realities of the war.

The end of the book gives the hint about Grant.

The title of the second book isn't exactly obscure either. :wink:

I figured Sickles was making a stab at later when he defied authority and ran for Harrisburg with his command.

But I can't seem to remember who Benjamin was in the first book.

Is he in it or arrives in the second?

[Che]

Quote: But I can't seem to remember who Benjamin was in the first book.


Benny was unusual for an American politico of the mid-19th century... he was Jewish.

He hailed from New Orleans.

He held several cabinet posts under Jefferson Davis... for the entire war.

Best known for being Confederate Sect. of State.

[JuntaJoe]

Well, there's a hole in my history knowlege that I need to fill.

[Che]

Quick references on Benny...

BIO #1

BIO #2